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Old Oct 13th, 2008, 03:25 AM   #1 (permalink)  
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True picture of worlds largest democracy...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/wo...ll&oref=slogin


Hindu Threat to Christians: Convert or Flee
Deshakalyan Chowdhury/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images


They were ordered to get on their knees and bow before the portrait of a Hindu preacher. They were told to turn over their Bibles, hymnals and the two brightly colored calendar images of Christ that hung on their wall. Then, Mr. Digal, 45, a Christian since childhood, was forced to watch his Hindu neighbors set the items on fire.

“ ‘Embrace Hinduism, and your house will not be demolished,’ ” Mr. Digal recalled being told on that Wednesday afternoon in September. “ ‘Otherwise, you will be killed, or you will be thrown out of the village.’ ”

India, the world’s most populous democracy and officially a secular nation, is today haunted by a stark assault on one of its fundamental freedoms. Here in eastern Orissa State, riven by six weeks of religious clashes, Christian families like the Digals say they are being forced to abandon their faith in exchange for their safety.

The forced conversions come amid widening attacks on Christians here and in at least five other states across the country, as India prepares for national elections next spring.

The clash of faiths has cut a wide swath of panic and destruction through these once quiet hamlets fed by paddy fields and jackfruit trees. Here in Kandhamal, the district that has seen the greatest violence, more than 30 people have been killed, 3,000 homes burned and over 130 churches destroyed, including the tin-roofed Baptist prayer hall where the Digals worshiped. Today it is a heap of rubble on an empty field, where cows blithely graze.

Across this ghastly terrain lie the singed remains of mud-and-thatch homes. Christian-owned businesses have been systematically attacked. Orange flags (orange is the sacred color of Hinduism) flutter triumphantly above the rooftops of houses and storefronts.

India is no stranger to religious violence between Christians, who make up about 2 percent of the population, and India’s Hindu-majority of 1.1 billion people. But this most recent spasm is the most intense in years.

It was set off, people here say, by the killing on Aug. 23 of a charismatic Hindu preacher known as Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati, who for 40 years had rallied the area’s people to choose Hinduism over Christianity.

The police have blamed Maoist guerrillas for the swami’s killing. But Hindu radicals continue to hold Christians responsible.

In recent weeks, they have plastered these villages with gruesome posters of the swami’s hacked corpse. “Who killed him?” the posters ask. “What is the solution?”

Behind the clashes are long-simmering tensions between equally impoverished groups: the Panas and Kandhas. Both original inhabitants of the land, the two groups for ages worshiped the same gods. Over the past several decades, the Panas for the most part became Christian, as Roman Catholic and Baptist missionaries arrived here more than 60 years ago, followed more recently by Pentecostals, who have proselytized more aggressively.

Meanwhile, the Kandhas, in part through the teachings of Swami Laxmanananda, embraced Hinduism. The men tied the sacred Hindu white thread around their torsos; their wives daubed their foreheads with bright red vermilion. Temples sprouted.

Hate has been fed by economic tensions as well, as the government has categorized each group differently and given them different privileges.

The Kandhas accused the Panas of cheating to obtain coveted quotas for government jobs. The Christian Panas, in turn, say their neighbors have become resentful as they have educated themselves and prospered.

Their grievances have erupted in sporadic clashes over the past 15 years, but they have exploded with a fury since the killing of Swami Laxmanananda.

Two nights after his death, a Hindu mob in the village of Nuagaon dragged a Catholic priest and a nun from their residence, tore off much of their clothing and paraded them through the streets.

The nun told the police that she had been raped by four men, a charge the police say was borne out by a medical examination. Yet no one was arrested in the case until five weeks later, after a storm of media coverage. Today, five men are under arrest in connection with inciting the riots. The police say they are trying to find the nun and bring her back here to identify her attackers.

Given a chance to explain the recent violence, Subash Chauhan, the state’s highest-ranking leader of Bajrang Dal, a Hindu radical group, described much of it as “a spontaneous reaction.”

He said in an interview that the nun had not been raped but had had regular consensual sex.

On Sunday evening, as much of Kandhamal remained under curfew, Mr. Chauhan sat in the hall of a Hindu school in the state capital, Bhubaneshwar, beneath a huge portrait of the swami. A state police officer was assigned to protect him round the clock. He cupped a trilling Blackberry in his hand.

Mr. Chauhan denied that his group was responsible for forced conversions and in turn accused Christian missionaries of luring villagers with incentives of schools and social services.

He was asked repeatedly whether Christians in Orissa should be left free to worship the god of their choice. “Why not?” he finally said, but he warned that it was unrealistic to expect the Kandhas to politely let their Pana enemies live among them as followers of Jesus.

“Who am I to give assurance?” he snapped. “Those who have exploited the Kandhas say they want to live together?”

Besides, he said, “they are Hindus by birth.”

Hindu extremists have held ceremonies in the country’s indigenous belt for the past several years intended to purge tribal communities of Christian influence.

It is impossible to know how many have been reconverted here, in the wake of the latest violence, though a three-day journey through the villages of Kandhamal turned up plenty of anecdotal evidence.

A few steps from where the nun had been attacked in Nuagaon, five men, their heads freshly shorn, emerged from a soggy tent in a relief camp for Christians fleeing their homes.

The men had also been summoned to a village meeting in late August, where hundreds of their neighbors stood with machetes in hand and issued a firm order: Get your heads shaved and bow down before our gods, or leave this place.

Trembling with fear, Daud Nayak, 56, submitted to a shaving, a Hindu sign of sacrifice. He drank, as instructed, a tumbler of diluted cow dung, considered to be purifying.

In the eyes of his neighbors, he reckoned, he became a Hindu.

In his heart, he said, he could not bear it.

All five men said they fled the next day with their families. They refuse to return.

In another village, Birachakka, a man named Balkrishna Digal and his son, Saroj, said they had been summoned to a similar meeting and told by Hindu leaders who came from nearby villages that they, too, would have to convert. In their case, the ceremony was deferred because of rumors of Christian-Hindu clashes nearby.

For the time being, the family had placed an orange flag on their mud home. Their Hindu neighbors promised to protect them.

Here in Borepanga, the family of Solomon Digal was not so lucky. Shortly after they recounted their Sept. 10 Hindu conversion story to a reporter in the dark of night, the Digals were again summoned by their neighbors. They were scolded and fined 501 rupees, or about $12, a pinching sum here.

The next morning, calmly clearing his cauliflower field, Lisura Paricha, one of the Hindu men who had summoned the Digals, confirmed that they had been penalized. Their crime, he said, was to talk to outsiders.







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Old Oct 13th, 2008, 05:12 AM   #2 (permalink)  
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Does this mean, only Hindus are allowed to live freely in India?






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Old Oct 13th, 2008, 07:59 AM   #3 (permalink)  
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Does this mean, only Hindus are allowed to live freely in India?

Dalits are not treated any better.






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Old Oct 13th, 2008, 12:13 PM   #4 (permalink)  
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i guess hinduisum is just taking some tits bits from religions like christanity and islam now i.e. conversion.







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Old Oct 13th, 2008, 03:20 PM   #5 (permalink)  
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^ without much success, ofcourse







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Old Oct 13th, 2008, 04:06 PM   #6 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by chintu_bhopali View Post
i guess hinduisum is just taking some tits bits from religions like christanity and islam now i.e. conversion.
That argument is based on falsehood because Islam was not spread by the sword, neither were people threatened to convert or face execution. The presence of Hinduism and a good number of christians and jews who lived in muslim lands is a proof of the fact that muslims protected minority religions of the land.

Anyhow....i think those who are threatening christians should be brought to swift justice and made an example for anyone who may have similar ambitions. Wouldn't you agree?







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Old Oct 13th, 2008, 06:15 PM   #7 (permalink)  
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Just want to add that usually in India we have personally heard of Christians and even muslims forcefully trying to convert people, but now I guess Hindus are catching on. Whoever does it out of force is wrong.

I think we have way too much free time back home and instead of bettering ouselves as whatever religion we belong to, we waste precious time trying to create havoc and chaos in our countries.







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Old Oct 13th, 2008, 06:34 PM   #8 (permalink)  
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When/where in post-Partition India did you hear that Christians and Muslims were forcing people to convert?






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Old Oct 13th, 2008, 07:02 PM   #9 (permalink)  
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^ Prob the kps in Jammu camps






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Old Oct 13th, 2008, 11:32 PM   #10 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by teggy View Post
That argument is based on falsehood because Islam was not spread by the sword, neither were people threatened to convert or face execution. The presence of Hinduism and a good number of christians and jews who lived in muslim lands is a proof of the fact that muslims protected minority religions of the land.

Anyhow....i think those who are threatening christians should be brought to swift justice and made an example for anyone who may have similar ambitions. Wouldn't you agree?
I am not saying that islam was spread by sword. What i am saying is earlier there was no conversion into hinduisum and u wont see any pandit asking ppl from other religions to convert to hinudisum as mullahs and christian missionaries do. And there is forceful conversion into islam in some cases like what we see in iraq now and same was in case of christanity in past. And if someone is adopting other reigion from islam it has a death sentence .






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Old Oct 14th, 2008, 12:10 AM   #11 (permalink)  
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^
Thats just plain false.

The Arya Samaj has been performing 'shuddhi' [Hindu 'reconversions'] among Christian (and to a lesser extent Muslim) communities in India for over a century now. They especially targeted tribal groups that didn't identify as Hindus, but had retained some aspects of Hindu religious culture. In fact, the Tableeghi Jamaat itself was born out of at attempt to counteract the Samaj's efforts to convert the Meos of Rajasthan to Hinduism by educating them about more orthodox Sunni beliefs.






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Old Oct 14th, 2008, 12:13 AM   #12 (permalink)  
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That's quite an eye opener, and now that you mention it, I am aware of some Arya Samajis who are quite "kattar" if you may call them that and I'm not surprised at what you are saying. Looks like we learn something new everyday.






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Old Oct 14th, 2008, 01:12 AM   #13 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by janab-e-ali View Post
^
Thats just plain false.

The Arya Samaj has been performing 'shuddhi' [Hindu 'reconversions'] among Christian (and to a lesser extent Muslim) communities in India for over a century now. They especially targeted tribal groups that didn't identify as Hindus, but had retained some aspects of Hindu religious culture. In fact, the Tableeghi Jamaat itself was born out of at attempt to counteract the Samaj's efforts to convert the Meos of Rajasthan to Hinduism by educating them about more orthodox Sunni beliefs.
could you please post some links regarding it. I have heared abt meos of rajisthan and its like some of them follow hinduisum and some of them follow islam.I want to know where they have converted christians and muslims to hinduisum?






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Old Oct 14th, 2008, 02:38 AM   #14 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by janab-e-ali View Post
When/where in post-Partition India did you hear that Christians and Muslims were forcing people to convert?
what about Pre-Partition aunty?







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Old Oct 14th, 2008, 06:44 AM   #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janab-e-ali View Post
^
Thats just plain false.

The Arya Samaj has been performing 'shuddhi' [Hindu 'reconversions'] among Christian (and to a lesser extent Muslim) communities in India for over a century now. They especially targeted tribal groups that didn't identify as Hindus, but had retained some aspects of Hindu religious culture. In fact, the Tableeghi Jamaat itself was born out of at attempt to counteract the Samaj's efforts to convert the Meos of Rajasthan to Hinduism by educating them about more orthodox Sunni beliefs.
crap.
Stick to Kashmir lady. You are better informed there than rest of India.
Arya samaj is a social Hindu organization and do not proselytize aggressively. Any body who want to convert to Hinduism can go to this organization. But the validity of this conversion is a matter of doubt.






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Old Oct 14th, 2008, 06:52 AM   #16 (permalink)  
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That argument is based on falsehood because Islam was not spread by the sword, neither were people threatened to convert or face execution. The presence of Hinduism and a good number of christians and jews who lived in muslim lands is a proof of the fact that muslims protected minority religions of the land.

Anyhow....i think those who are threatening christians should be brought to swift justice and made an example for anyone who may have similar ambitions. Wouldn't you agree?
If there is a religion who talk about less favorable treatment to followers of other religion then it always ends up in conflict. Its also a point to ponder that the Pope and Khalifat were considered as holy and people went to war depending on their will and greed. Major guiding factor for these people were to convert and capture more land and subjugate their people under their dominion.






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Old Oct 14th, 2008, 08:27 AM   #17 (permalink)  
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I am not saying that islam was spread by sword. .

NO, All 1.5 billion were converted by ISI






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Old Oct 14th, 2008, 09:39 AM   #18 (permalink)  
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NO, All 1.5 billion were converted by ISI
Is it. Lo staright from horses's mouth.






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Old Oct 14th, 2008, 10:16 AM   #19 (permalink)  
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Is it. Lo staright from horses's mouth.
Don't be calling him a horse







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Old Oct 14th, 2008, 12:18 PM   #20 (permalink)  
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Don't be calling him a horse
ok sorry ..galti se mistake ho agya.

straight from :AID: mouth.






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