CM

because of sept 11, most americans and europeans to an extent should be happy that they will play closer attention to the rest of the world.
They will not remain ignorant of the rest of the world, of the facted up policies their govts implement.
This board is an example of that.

However we have come across a few problems.
Those rose tinted glasses can't seem to come off, and some are wearing black sun glasses.
But we will do our very best to educate these people about the reality of life outside their backyard.
These americans should be thankful to us, for now they know where Pakistan is.
As well as what UN resolutions are, the brits have newspapers.
The problem between Israel and Palestine.
The Hypocracy of Saudi and Taliban.
Pakistanis can speak english and not only pakistani.
All and any thanks will be welcome americans.

------------------
Ours is not to reason why;
Ours is but to do and die

Thap

Bored huh?....

TOMASSO

You know, in all truth, some people have
learnt many things because of a wealthy, zeal
ous, crafty, diabolical Yemeni. I for one,
have seen the true face of my media as
pertains to overseas news. I didn't like
their presentation of domestic matters either
Heck, every other news source I checked
missed the fact that Likud did a 180 and dis-
avowed the Palestinian State. Got that on
Arab News via the internet, all by myself! It
takes alot of blood to get the message out. I
hate violence deep down. There is something
else that may be positive about this, CM, the
improvement of 2 countries and the estabalish
ment of dialogue between distant lands on
many levels. This world has riches not able
to have a price put on them. Hey, I also, now
know that Saudi Arabia may ask us to un*ss
that fancy airbase in country. That was in the American media, to my surprise. I'm not
gonna thank you for the attack, but for the
info provided here. When it dawned on me to
come to Gupshup, I knew I would find folks
that were savy. Waki/pakis you are not. I was
bored before 9/11, but got my eyes peeled
back thereafter. Take care.

Akif

So long as black sunglasses stay on, I dont see anything to be happy about. As a matter of fact, things have only gotten worse, with America looking to expand its military presence in many more countries, and the atrocities being committed by Israel gaining momentum by the minute.

There was a time when Israel used F-16s to attack Palestine, and the US authorities were furious over it. Now its a daily matter, and the americans seem to be well settled with the idea.

FreeMind

CM kiddo

the fact is that Pak is taking 180 degrees turns on many policy issues under American and Indian guns. Who is teaching whom?

Americans condemned pakistan to rigid islam back in 1979 when all sort of fanatics started coming to pak to get trained by CIA and pak army. We should blame Americans for doing their dirty work in afghanistan thru us.

But for all the modernisation drive in pak now, we should also thank the hardliners (American govt's Powell and Indian govt's Advani) for spanking the right ppl to do the right thing.

The sad thing in both the periods is that ppl at the helm of affairs did what they did for money and their survival. pakistani ppl were not more than pawns or silent audience.

TOMASSO

Ok, what are ya' all going to do about the
F-16 policy. There has got to be some one
that has a plan, besides terror. America does
not, from my point of view, overstep the line
in dealing with enemies. This is a general-
ization. Israel, under certain leadership, is
too strong and not restrained enough. They
use our best weaponary in the worst way. The
need is there for a D E F E N S E force, but
is used in a kind of offensive manner. I can
see a need for sanctions directed against the
State of Israel, for starters. Americans like
a fair fight, or to back the underdog. Israel
was at one time an underdog. Palestine is, at
this time, an underdog. (underdog means dis-
advantaged).

Ex-Army

CM,

Thanks for sending your country’s children soldiers who were trained in Pakistan into battle. Thanks for hiding terrorist and supporting them. Enough?

Tomasso,

Where do you get the fair fight thing? Supporting the underdogs, we do. The second the US stops complete backing of the Israelis every Arab and Muslim country in the region will be in line to wipe them out. The only thing that keeps them there and alive is that they have the backbone and will to back down all threats, overcoming all odds. All is fair in love and war. Fair fighting went out the window during the revolution.

The Godfather

Remember you said it....

Mr Fraudia

ex army

the way you missed the intention of the post indicates that you may have been ex army but not a Military School grad

TOMASSO

Hey, Ex-Army, I am a descendant of a fighter
from the American Revolution. We were the
underdog then, buster. We were against all
forms of tyranny. Israel is a tyrant. I do
not favor demilitarizing them, but do favor
holding their feet to the fire on human right
issues. It is a LANDGRAB not unlike our mis-
treatment of native Americans, which was very
much opposed to by some Americans in real time. Not all Arab nations would pour into
Israel, either. Jordan wouldn't, Egypt would
not, nor do I believe Saudi Arabia would. The
Iraelis have the respect of our military and
Republicans because of their military ability
in years past. They are quite good, in fact.
Other Arab countries even acknowledge it.
However, do you know what Eretz Israel means?
Some political entities in Israel are of a
mind to be greedy. They don't really respect
the sovereign rights of neighboring lands.
You are an appologist for state terror. I do
not defend the theory of terror against a
civilian population, but Sharon is quilty of
this as well. He bears some responsibilty for
current tragedies. Israel resembles a certain
country to which it has great reason to hate.
The country persecuted people, made designs
on other's soil, and operated a militarily,
focus government. Goose step any one?

Ex-Army

Go back and look at history and see if Israel has not been attacked by the nations you have named. I respect your opinion but whole heartedly disagree. The Palestinians have chosen this path of destruction. Palestine does not exist only because they have made the choice not to. Do I apologize for the Israeli’s protecting their own, no need too. They have shown far to much restraint and thus suffer these ridiculous suicide attacks at the hand of Arafat.

NotMT

Tomasso, My hat's off to you. In my humble opinion, you have shown the light. Now, if you can get the others, East and West, to put down their fist for a minute, maybe they can to.

The world is getting smaller. Its time East and West peoples get along and share. If we don't, each of our respective governments will continue to lie to us.

TOMASSO

The faction of American support for Israel is
a group that bears serious investigation. It
can be done. The key is Zionism, not the
Jewish faith, per se. God has not commanded
the Israelis to embark on their current path
to my knowledge. That leaves the field open
for speculation.

FreeMind

No problem. Pak's military leadres have been doing that since 1979 to wage ur dirty war in afghnaistan. because u Americans lacked the balls to take on Russians urself. And these children that u trained by ur CIA were much better than south vietnamese, who could not help u win the war despite 150+ billion dallar investment and 58,000 Americans killed. So be thankful to these poor pakistani and afghani kids who were easily brainwashed to wage ur war, courtsy pak military and saudi kingdom.

Next time, do ur dirty laundary urself.


[This message has been edited by FreeMind (edited January 20, 2002).]

Malik73

Tomasso, there maybe speculation among Israeli's/Zionists over there actions against the Palestinian's, but what is not under speculation is the amount of US financial and military to aid to Israel. US aid to Israel has amounted to over $90 billion dollars - that's $75,000 for every Israeli family of five.

Those are the bare facts, that no one has been able to counter so far...

What is not under speculation is the bare facts that that since 1993 (when these US-mediated Oslo peace talks began) the US has give Israel over $28 billion in aid, yet only a measly $0.35 billion to the Palestinian's. Hence the USA has given Israel 82 times more aid than it has given the Palestinian's since 1993.

NotMT

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FreeMind:
Next time, do ur dirty laundary urself.

FreeMind, The chance of any ragged afghanistan army winning a war over almost anyone is nill, let alone the Soviet Union in its hay day. You should be thanking the U.S. for its alliance during that time. I'm sick of the twisted way some in that region see things. Sure there are two sides to every coin. But, for crying out loud, tell the truth.

Who did whose 'Dirty Laundry'




[This message has been edited by NotMT (edited January 20, 2002).]

FreeMind

NotMT,

Afghan communist govt in 1979 was a liberal govt, whose only enemy was thousands of miles away, uncle sam. Only religous fanatics and u imperialist Americans were fighting against that liberal govt. U guys needed a revenge of vietnam defeat, and u chose millions of afghans to wage ur dirty war.

And after siding with fanatics, u all deserve 100s of 9/11 in time to come.

NotMT

You tell me what I deserve.

I risked going to jail and was thrown out of the U.S. Nuclear Submarine Navy when during a security check they found my letter to President Nixon. There are tens of thousands like me.

The letter said that I would not kill anyone unless directly attacked. I pointed out that my Bible didn't make exception for orders from a government not under attack. This was during the (1969) Vietnam War.

Maybe if some of those lemming Al Quada had some nerve, they would have told Omar and his gang that it wasn't right either thus saving hundreds of lives there.

You lump us Americans in one bag, like I see some Americans do to you. And you would kill me for being born here?

Maybe if all of us here in the United States thought like you, you would be right in your thinking. But, you are totally wrong.

As for the 911 incident. I support the destruction of Al Quida and the Taliban. I don't support killing you or inocent people.

You have a right to your opinion. Its actions that count. But be careful when you start tossing rocks at the big dog. The leash is very loose because of people (American or otherwize) who would think like you.

FreeMind

OK, I deelpy apologize for lumping all Americans in one bag at the height of emotions. it was not my intention.

But yes, if some American thinks that it was his/her duty to do terrorism (in the name of freedom) against Afghan govt in 1979 with the help of thousands of fanatic froeigners and neighbouring military govt (pak), then that American deserves terrorism like 9/11.

NotMT

It was my understanding that the American Military Institution aided the Afghan Government with arms and satelite information to help you against the Soviet Union. I thought the anger came from how the U.S. left afghanistan without helping get them back on thier feet and cleaning up the mess. I know/knew of no terrorist actions by the U.S. What happened?